It does lack privacy controls, but jaiku's privacy controls aren't so fine-tuned as to make it the envy of every other microblog out there >.> Plurk has the best privacy options, imho.
The first thing is that there is no clear separation between channel posts and personal posts. Not visually in the backend, not in the web interface, and not in the notifications.
They are just regular posts that also get aggregated into the channel(s) that happen to appear in the body of the message, and channels coincidently have their own page. As a result, even people that are not subscribed to the channel, but are subscribed to the person posting, will get a notification. I always liked it that you didn't get bothered by all the updates on conferences you weren't attending, for example.
agreed - I pointed this out the only time the groups feature was discussed and basicly they are implementing fast to capture customers - so expect a lot of iteration on this
Also, the reason I didn't post this on identi.ca, is the again the lack of real comments. I love the model where the post is limited and plain-text and then have unlimited, formatted comments.
If somebody could just take the lessons learned from Twitter, FriendFeed, Jaiku, and Identi.ca, and magically populate it with the users from all of them, we'd be set.
@kshep: we've always strongly believed in the federated model, where everyone can be in their own preferred environment and associated feature set, without losing track of your friends that might be elsewhere.
@ralphm I like the theory of federation, but when one member of the community implements new "standards" in isolation, e.g. !groups, it throws a wrench in the works.
@kshep I'm interested in your view of these lessons.
@ralphm I notice you haven't answered evan's call for people to introduce themselves on the omb mailing list. I'm a little reluctant to introduce myself there since I don't officially represent anyone but I wrote up a little thing. Anything to ensure that the OMB spec isn't just a description of Laconica's behaviour.
@kshep: I believe you can get to a reasonable exchange of social objects without necessarily being bitten by local features like this. I am thinking of streams you can subscribe to and how a particular social object is represented in the exchange format.
... for the latter I think Atom is the logical choice here. Given that and your !channel example, the question is how external entities subscribe to a channel (in whatever incarnation) and how the post is rendered to Atom.
... Just plain text probably doesn't cut it, because things like @ and ! and # have local meaning and you need the originating service to mark that up properly.
@bear This one: http://lists.openmicroblogging.org/mailman/listinfo/omb
Evan's making a big push to get actual federation off the ground and he's done a few things, like putting the spec in a Gitorious repository, which makes me think he's serious about it.
@ralphm Don't worry so far there hasn't been much activity on the list beyond the "introduce yourselves" thread. I'm planning to spend this weekend re-reading the existing OMB spec and working out how to get the current spec into Github. Hopefully that should generate some questions for the mailing list.
@shep has a point. My over-riding memory of the last time I read the current spec is that it wasn't actually a spec but a rough description of Laconica.
yea, I found it buried in my "inactive" pile - moving it over to keep an eye on it. I agree with your impression of the first omb spec and I was all geared-up to help with the process months ago until I became the Ops guy at work :(
the big idea behind it, is that users would just use an IM client similar to pidgin or Gwibber, and connect or push via XMPP to all there friends/followers. i guess so way of pubsub. I could just open new "topics" and make "comments" to them, like we do on µblogs.
there could then be a way to export or push all or part of those contents to one or more µblog compatible sites
30 comments so far
agreed
10 months ago by bear
@ralphm: why? I seem to like #identica... it just needs some AUTH control to prevent #spam
10 months ago by BUGabundo
Well, you yourself have said it @BUGabundo, they lack the awesome threadage action
10 months ago by edythemighty
it's lacking threads, privacy controls and it's still database driven
10 months ago by bear
It does lack privacy controls, but jaiku's privacy controls aren't so fine-tuned as to make it the envy of every other microblog out there >.> Plurk has the best privacy options, imho.
10 months ago by edythemighty
The first thing is that there is no clear separation between channel posts and personal posts. Not visually in the backend, not in the web interface, and not in the notifications.
They are just regular posts that also get aggregated into the channel(s) that happen to appear in the body of the message, and channels coincidently have their own page. As a result, even people that are not subscribed to the channel, but are subscribed to the person posting, will get a notification. I always liked it that you didn't get bothered by all the updates on conferences you weren't attending, for example.
10 months ago by ralphm
@edythemighty: sure, Jaiku's implementation might receive some additional features, but I think it got the basics right.
10 months ago by ralphm
agreed - I pointed this out the only time the groups feature was discussed and basicly they are implementing fast to capture customers - so expect a lot of iteration on this
10 months ago by bear
I am so glad that Jaiku is going open source.
It may have a huge impact on identi.ca's future. Or maybe the two technologies could be merged? What's Jaiku written in/APIs used?
10 months ago by clith
Also, the reason I didn't post this on identi.ca, is the again the lack of real comments. I love the model where the post is limited and plain-text and then have unlimited, formatted comments.
10 months ago by ralphm
i'm thinking it's been all ported to python (or what pieces were not already) since it's a GAE app now
10 months ago by bear
@clith: the new code base will run on Google App Engine, and is written in Python.
10 months ago by ralphm
If somebody could just take the lessons learned from Twitter, FriendFeed, Jaiku, and Identi.ca, and magically populate it with the users from all of them, we'd be set.
10 months ago by kshep
...build a new app, that is...
10 months ago by kshep
messaging back end with open standards based hooks - that's what I'm talking about
10 months ago by bear
@kshep: we've always strongly believed in the federated model, where everyone can be in their own preferred environment and associated feature set, without losing track of your friends that might be elsewhere.
10 months ago by ralphm
Just downloaded laconi.ca source (git clone http://laconi.ca/software/laconica.git ) and found it to be all PHP.
Another reason to be happy that Jaiku is going open source. :-)
10 months ago by clith
yep - felt that pain a couple months ago - can't wait for more python code to emerge
10 months ago by bear
@clith: I really think the choice of keeping laconi.ca pure PHP will be regretted at some point. Certainly for larger deployments.
10 months ago by ralphm
@ralphm I like the theory of federation, but when one member of the community implements new "standards" in isolation, e.g. !groups, it throws a wrench in the works.
10 months ago by kshep
@kshep I'm interested in your view of these lessons.
@ralphm I notice you haven't answered evan's call for people to introduce themselves on the omb mailing list. I'm a little reluctant to introduce myself there since I don't officially represent anyone but I wrote up a little thing. Anything to ensure that the OMB spec isn't just a description of Laconica's behaviour.
10 months ago by adewale
@kshep: I believe you can get to a reasonable exchange of social objects without necessarily being bitten by local features like this. I am thinking of streams you can subscribe to and how a particular social object is represented in the exchange format.
10 months ago by ralphm
... for the latter I think Atom is the logical choice here. Given that and your !channel example, the question is how external entities subscribe to a channel (in whatever incarnation) and how the post is rendered to Atom.
10 months ago by ralphm
which omb mailing list - i'm tracking a couple and haven't seen any activity
10 months ago by bear
... Just plain text probably doesn't cut it, because things like @ and ! and # have local meaning and you need the originating service to mark that up properly.
10 months ago by ralphm
@adewale: probably because I am not yet subscribed to that list. I've had a bit of a time off things, and just starting to get back into action.
10 months ago by ralphm
@bear This one: http://lists.openmicroblogging.org/mailman/listinfo/omb Evan's making a big push to get actual federation off the ground and he's done a few things, like putting the spec in a Gitorious repository, which makes me think he's serious about it.
@ralphm Don't worry so far there hasn't been much activity on the list beyond the "introduce yourselves" thread. I'm planning to spend this weekend re-reading the existing OMB spec and working out how to get the current spec into Github. Hopefully that should generate some questions for the mailing list.
@shep has a point. My over-riding memory of the last time I read the current spec is that it wasn't actually a spec but a rough description of Laconica.
10 months ago by adewale
yea, I found it buried in my "inactive" pile - moving it over to keep an eye on it. I agree with your impression of the first omb spec and I was all geared-up to help with the process months ago until I became the Ops guy at work :(
10 months ago by bear
i would love full privacy control and a way to sub and unsub from any thread, feed, person, bot, any time,m any how, for any amount of time.
I've spec about it here:
http://laconi.ca/trac/wiki/BUGabundo/SocialNetworksDrillDown
I've also compiled a list of things I would like to see on any µblog system:
http://laconi.ca/trac/wiki/BUGabundo/SetOfFeaturesToMakeAPerfectSocialNetwork
10 months ago by BUGabundo
but for me, it would be perfect to just do it from a client side and not over HTTP.
I know that the "webpage" model is much more interesting, 'cause it can generate a revenue model, while a XMPP federation scheme doesnt scale so good.
still, with a PUSH-to-µblog system, that could still be guaranteed.
see here http://laconi.ca/trac/wiki/BUGabundo/SNOfflineApp
never mind then name... it sucks!
the big idea behind it, is that users would just use an IM client similar to pidgin or Gwibber, and connect or push via XMPP to all there friends/followers. i guess so way of pubsub. I could just open new "topics" and make "comments" to them, like we do on µblogs.
there could then be a way to export or push all or part of those contents to one or more µblog compatible sites
10 months ago by BUGabundo